Lossless compression and 10 bit video

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patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 25.03.21, 12:53

Hello everyone,
I mainly work with movie images 4K 10 bit Prores 4.2.2 (PROXY, LT HQ, ...). The advantage of 10 bit is, among other things, that annoying color banding can be limited. To my knowledge, the export options in Mobjects do not allow such export. Exporting to an uncompressed avi for external recoding is possible, but in practice that is a hopeless task for longer edits due to the enormous file size of the avi. When I install a Lossless codec like Lagarith it is visible in the avi export options but not always. Often it has disappeared. Very weird. Does anyone have a solution or suggestion?
Txs and kind regards,
Patrick

mir
Beiträge: 153
Registriert: 09.10.09, 20:50

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon mir » 26.03.21, 11:29

hi Patrick,

on which device do you want to output the 10 bit videos? Mobjects is primary used for presentation, not for editing videos, even if some functions are implemented there. If you have really high demands, you should edit the video externally.

Regards
Michael

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 26.03.21, 13:57

Hello Michael,
Txs for your quick reply. Normally, my presentation device is a pc to beamer or screen.
Too bad because I also think MO is a pretty good video editing program. Maybe possible in a later update?
Apart from that, I still wonder why some individual installed codecs such as Lagarith (old but still awesome) are sometimes visible in the avi options and sometimes not ...
Do you have a solution for this?
Much greetings,
Patrick

mir
Beiträge: 153
Registriert: 09.10.09, 20:50

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon mir » 27.03.21, 8:52

Normally your beamer or screen is not able to show 10bit. All what you see is reduced to 8bit.

concerning the codec I have no idea.

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 27.03.21, 15:04

Hello Michael,
Txs for your reply. I am aware that a specific10 bit monitor is required. More important hower is that the 10 bit quality in the editing process (and therefore also the export) is retained for evt. post editing. So unfortunately, this is not (yet) possible in MO.
Greetings,
Patrick

10bit.JPG

hora58
Beiträge: 212
Registriert: 18.07.15, 15:02
Wohnort: München

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon hora58 » 28.03.21, 18:05

Hello Patrick,

this is really interesting - or mainly confusing!
When I install a Lossless codec like Lagarith it is visible in the avi export options but not always. Often it has disappeared. Very weird.

I can fully confirm your experience .
After installing Lagarith Codec I recognized it once in the AVI export options dialog (see screenshot as evidence;-). But next time and many times after that - there was no "Lagarith Lossless Codec" to select ??????!!!!!
I tried to install it manually - e.g. as "32bit version on 64bit systems". Tried to install it in the m.objects program folder... as Admin and as common user... Tried to start m.objects as Admin... No success.

I did the same on a second machine with a quite new WIN10 installation... And - had the option once! ...but then never again...!?

I know that m.objects comes with it's own codec environment, to make it independent from different machine environments. But why did it recognize Lagarith once (or twice) and everything seems to be fine... and than never again?

I don't think that the reason ist the age (2011) of Lagarith, because the always present "Cinepak Codec" is from the last milenium ;-)

Maybe the m.objects development team has a plausible answer for us....

greetings
Horst

mo_lagarith.JPG
m.objects v9.5 2484 Creative, XMG 507 32GB und Nvidia GTX1070 8GB , Win10/64 Pro ... | Member of www.av-dialog.de | ...

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 28.03.21, 20:26

Hello Horst,
Txs! Finally someone who signed the problem as well.
I find it very annoying because this should not be a major problem technically to solve.
Mobjects (Steffen), now it is up to you.
Greetings,
Patrick

mk-will
Beiträge: 82
Registriert: 22.05.15, 13:18

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon mk-will » 29.03.21, 14:34

Hello Patrick,
Hello Horst,

I am not facing that problem.
The Lagarith Lossless Codec is always shown in my codec list, when exporting an AVI (tried yesterday, checked moments ago).
(Win 10-64 Pro, 20H2, MO 9.5 2484)

And afaik MO is only showing the codecs, that are reported by windows, so I think it's not a MO related problem.

Regards
Stephan

hora58
Beiträge: 212
Registriert: 18.07.15, 15:02
Wohnort: München

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon hora58 » 29.03.21, 22:39

Hello Stephan, hello Patrick

Thanks to Stephans statement - I turned my investigation in a new direction.
I tried installing more codecs to see if the selection list changed accordingly. I chose the K-lite codec pack - and this was a good decision!
During the installation I got the message that there were outdated registry entries for some codecs which could make problems.
The installation routine asked me to clean up and delete some codecs and this entries.
K-lite codec pack encludes a Codec Tweak Tool which is very helpfull in cleaning up all the codec mess on a Windows PC.
After that I Installed Lagarith again. And what shall i say? Since now it is present for ever.

My AVI export Codec list looks now like this:
codeclist.jpg
codeclist.jpg (40.57 KiB) 2443 mal betrachtet


Fine - so far.
There is only one strange effect left, which seems to be a m.objects bug.
By choosing 60fps as framerate for export - the "DIvX AVC/H.264 Video Encoder" disappears from the list ???
With all other Framerates it stays visible!!

Greetings
Horst
m.objects v9.5 2484 Creative, XMG 507 32GB und Nvidia GTX1070 8GB , Win10/64 Pro ... | Member of www.av-dialog.de | ...

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 29.03.21, 23:09

Hello everyone,
Txs Horst.
Nice to see that the "Problem" is there and iow excists.
I' l have a try with the proposed codec cleaning tool. However I use the codec tool for a long time.
Still I find MO a perfect video editing program besides all the years I used it (and still now) for AV presentations. Look ahead...
Patrick

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 03.04.21, 1:39

Hello everyone,
I tried the newest K-lite codec pack, and also reinstalled completely the latest version of Mobjects.
Now I can't even create avi files anymore. The render screen keeps blocking completely!
Exporting video in 10 bit (such as ProRes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pro ... r%20frames.) is still not possible while several free programs can easily convert to ProRes such as VirtualDub, XmediaRecode, Staxrip, etc.
This is getting more and more frustrating!
Patrick

mk-will
Beiträge: 82
Registriert: 22.05.15, 13:18

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon mk-will » 03.04.21, 11:34

Hello, Patrick,

did you install the UTvideo codec as well?
If so then uninstall the UTvideo codec and try again.

Once I had installed the UTvideo codec I encountered the same problem (rendering didn't start).

Regards
Stephan

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 04.04.21, 13:32

Hello Stephan,
Txs, I' try to remove some specific codecs such as UTvideo ...
Grts,
Patrick

hora58
Beiträge: 212
Registriert: 18.07.15, 15:02
Wohnort: München

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon hora58 » 04.04.21, 14:02

...and take care, installing new ones and m.objects itself "as Admin" or not...
m.objects is quite sensitve regarding this.

Horst
m.objects v9.5 2484 Creative, XMG 507 32GB und Nvidia GTX1070 8GB , Win10/64 Pro ... | Member of www.av-dialog.de | ...

patster
Beiträge: 21
Registriert: 14.12.15, 0:14

Re: Lossless compression and 10 bit video

Beitragvon patster » 04.04.21, 21:30

Txs Stephan,
The avi Problem is solved after unstalling the UTVideo, but I still think it's a shame that there is no export option in 10 bit video.
The only method that I know is to export all frames individually to png images and then turn them into a 10 bit video via Virtualdub...
In between the problem of the disappearance of the Lagarith codec still remains (and even then this codec remains 8 bit ...).
Grts,
Patrick